MR. JOYNER: I'm Tom Joyner of the Tom Joyner Morning Show.

MR. STANTON: Presidential Candidates Forum, a Dialogue with America's Families. This forum is sponsored by WIS-TV, the Center for Community Change, and the Tom Joyner Morning Program. I'm David Stanton with WIS-TV.

MR. JOYNER: I'm Tom Joyner of the Tom Joyner Morning Show. What we have this morning are real families selected and these real families will ask questions of the candidates. The candidates will come out here one at a time, and these families will talk to these candidates one-on-one about the issues that affect them. This is not a debate, this is a dialogue with America's families.

Are we ready to get started?

MR. STANTON: Before we begin, we're going to review our format. Each candidate is going to be introduced and will have 45 seconds to respond to an opening statement responding to this question, would you set a goal of reducing poverty as president, and if so what would the goal be, and how would you achieve it?

MR. JOYNER: We have to do the legal disclaimer.

MR. STANTON: The families will ask the questions, the candidates will have a minute 30 to respond.

MR. JOYNER: I mean, the views, and how the lawyers always have you say, the views do not reflect the views of the radio station, the television station, and the Center for Community Change.

MR. STANTON: I think you just did. Thank you very much.

MR. JOYNER: Legal is in my ear.

MR. STANTON: Tom and I are going to also be asking questions, and the candidates will have a minute to respond to each of our questions. And we also ask the audience, if you would, please, keep your applause down until the end of our program so we'll have more time to hear from the candidates. Six of the seven candidates for president are here today. Senator Joseph Lieberman declined our invitation.

GEN. CLARK: Well, I think it's unconscionable that in the wealthiest country in the world we've got 35 million Americans in poverty, including nine million children, and here's what we're going to do about it. Number one, we're going to raise the minimum wage to $7 an hour. Number two, we're going to reform income tax, the biggest change in 30 years, if you're a family of four making $50,000 a year or less, you'll never again pay federal income tax. And, number three, we're going to have $100 billion jobs program, we're going to put America back to work. We're going to raise two million people out of poverty, and two million children out of poverty in the first 12 months of a Clark administration.

MR. STANTON: Thanks, General Clark.

GEN. CLARK: That's my goal, and we'll do it.

MR. STANTON: Thank you, sir.

And now, Tom is going to introduce our families.

MR. JOYNER: Okay. First, let me introduce Elaine Johnson, Lucille from Indiana, you are Lucille from?

LUCILLE: Missoula, Montana.

MR. JOYNER: And there's General Wesley Clark. Let me have, first of all, your background. Give me some information, your bio?

LUCILLE: I am with the Montana People's Action in Montana and also the Indian People's Action.

MR. JOYNER: Okay. And this picture that you're holding here is?

LUCILLE: This picture that I'm holding is my grandson Anthony, and I want to talk to --

MR. JOYNER: Hold it up for the cameras.

LUCILLE: I want to talk to General Clark about Medicaid. My grandson was diagnosed with bipolar about three years ago, and he depended on Medicaid, and there was Medicaid budget cuts throughout the whole country. Okay, what happened is that my grandson passed away January 11th, and he needed his Medicaid. He doesn't need it anymore, but there are other people out there that need it, and I'm going to keep fighting until Medicaid is out there for the people.

GEN. CLARK: Thank you so much for sharing that with us.

MR. JOYNER: And, ma'am, what is your question for us? And you are?

DEANA KANUTSON: Dina Kanutson (sp) from Seattle, Washington. And our question is, we hear every day about people like her grandson. I have a sister who died eight years ago because she couldn't get Medicaid, and a son who can't get care now because he has birth defects. And we want to know that when we have 43 million people in this country who do not have health insurance, and 1.6 million who lost insurance just this year, we don't have time to wait for a big, grand plan for how everybody is going to get healthcare.

We want to know, if you were president today, how would you make sure that Medicaid was available so people like her grandson could get the care that they need?

GEN. CLARK: The first thing that we have to do with Medicaid is put money back into it, and what we will do is give $40 billion back to the states in the first two years, at least $10 billion of that will go right into Medicaid to make up for these cutbacks. These are cutbacks coming because George W. Bush cut taxes for wealthy people, took revenue sources away from states, and states are cutting back on Medicaid, it's wrong, we're going to provide money.

The next thing we're going to do is guarantee health insurance for every child in America through the age of 22. If the parents can't afford it, we'll help them pay for it, up to five times the poverty level. We're going to make health insurance accessible for very adult in America. We're going to help low and moderate income people to get it. We're going to fix prescription drug benefits for our seniors.

And the very first thing I'm going to do as president is sign an executive order, because that's all it takes, to allow every American who wants to order prescription drugs from Canada to order prescription drugs from Canada. We're going to fix the medical crisis in this country. There is no reason why young men like your grandson will die, because this is the wealthiest country in the world, and we've got plenty of money to take care of every person in this country and keep them healthy. We just have to have some leadership to do it. And that's why I'm running.

MR. JOYNER: You have another question?

DINA KANUTSON: Actually, one of the things we're concerned about is, we keep hearing this thing about public versus private, how and where people are going to get care. And we know that the public programs like Medicaid actually take care of our people. The private insurance oftentimes is discriminatory and leaves people out in the cold. We want to know how you're going to address that as president, when we have so much pull to go towards privatization of healthcare?

GEN. CLARK: What we're going to do is put the money back into the public programs like Medicaid first. We're going to get people covered on the private programs, and as a last resort the same program that members of Congress have, even for people who are uninsurable, the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program will have a health standards commission that will tell us what is the proven evidence based medical way to treat diseases, and we'll use that so that all insurance companies comply with it. And we're going to go after insurance companies for profiteering, for discrimination, we're going to open up the antitrust exemption on the malpractice insurance companies, we're going to fix the health insurance industry in America, and if it can't be fixed then we'll look at other remedies, but we're going to get healthcare for the American people. That's my promise.

MR. JOYNER: And, General Clark, for your final question from the families, you'll have one minute for your answer.

DINA KANUTSON: So, when you're saying that, you're saying that you want to leave the private insurance being the main way that people get insurance, instead of going to a public program nationally?

GEN. CLARK: I'm saying that we have to move this thing. We have to move it by degrees, make the public programs work, and then put people under private programs, and then when they don't quite meet the bill, you start filling in. You can't-this is a huge, huge, $1.6 trillion a year, you can't snap your finger and change it overnight. You've got to make it work. And the first thing is to help as many people as we can as soon as we can.

DINA KANUTSON: One of the things is that I know that you have a military background, and one of the best public programs we have is the Veterans medical system. And I want to know why we can't think of it being that everybody should have that kind of coverage in this country as a public right since we are all citizens, and it should be the number one priority in this nation to cover everybody, whether children, elderly, it doesn't matter, everybody should have healthcare.

GEN. CLARK: I agree with you. We have to get every American healthcare. We must do it. And the VA system would be a good system if people would put money into it. If you talk to veterans, they'll tell you how disappointed they are. I'm going to take care of our nation's veterans, I'm going to put the money in that VA system to fix it. We won't have Veterans waiting six months for a doctor's appointment when I'm president of the United States, and then, as we move and fix that, we'll move this system. We're going to get an effective health delivery system step-by-step in this country. That's what we're going to do, and I'll do it. Like you said, I have been in the military, I know how to make big organizations operate, and I know how to make change happen, and I will.

MR. STANTON: General Clark, next question from over here. President Bush recently offered temporary work releases to millions of illegal immigrants in this country, what do you think about the president's proposal, and what would you do?

GEN. CLARK: I think it's a political gimmick for an election year, and that's not what I will do. We're going to have real immigration reform in this country when I'm president. In the first place, we've got between eight and 14 million people here who are undocumented. They've got jobs, they've got kids in school, they're paying Social Security and taxes, they're renting homes and buying homes, they're part of our country. Now, what we need to do is give them a way to earn their citizenship, and I will do that.

MR. STANTON: Next question from Tom Joyner.

MR. JOYNER: Okay. This question comes from our listeners who have gone on Blackamericaweb.com. This comes from Joan Hendricks of Mobile, Alabama. She says, do any of the candidates have or don't have-do any of the candidates have not ideas, but honest, quick financial solutions to assist hard working middle class families to educate their children on higher college levels?

GEN. CLARK: Yes, we do have that solution, I want to describe it to you. What we're going to do is for every child in America that graduates from high school and wants to go on to college, we're going to give them a $6000 grant for the first year, we're going to give them a $6000 grant for the second year, and we're going to get $1 million more kids in college across this country. That's what we're going to do.

MR. JOYNER: General Clark, we also solicited e-mail questions from our viewers, and the next question comes from Scott Socks from Lexington, South Carolina. Scott writes, based on my company's current strategic direction, I expect my programming and IT support job to be outsourced to India or a similar low wage country within the next three years. How do you plan to encourage large companies to keep jobs in the United States?

GEN. CLARK: First of all, we're going to start asking companies to send us a report when they're planning to outsource, so we know what's leaving the country. The second thing is, we're going to take away all the tax incentives for any company to outsource. You want a business deduction for outsourcing, the answer is no. You want to write off equipment, because you outsourced, the answer is no. You want to get a tax incentive in this country as a business in this country, you hire employees in this country. That's what we're going to say. And we'll then have a $100 billion job program, we'll put people to work in homeland security, giving money back to the states, employer tax credits. We'll be investing in research and development, to develop new technologies, to create new industries in America, and in things like software, where it's very important, and I've done work in the software business, I know what it's like, our national infrastructure software, that controls our utilities, our financial systems, our communications, our national defense systems, that cannot be outsourced. We will always maintain the software industry in this country.

MR. STANTON: Retired General Wesley Clark, thank you for being part of our forum today.

SEN. KERRY: Well, good afternoon, everybody, I think. Let me just say that for 35 years, from the time I came back from Vietnam, having fought in a war that saw more African Americans and Latinos serving on the front lines and becoming the casualties, and suffering when they came back, I learned first-hand how tough it can be in America with respect to getting rights. And I have never seen the economy of our country as unfair as it is today in the United States. People are working harder, working longer -- 43 percent of the children -- 43 percent of the African American children in South Carolina are poor; 30 percent of all the children in South Carolina are poor. And I'm tired of this being a country where we're willing to spend --

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

SEN. KERRY: -- $50,000 a year to put people in jail for the rest of their life, rather than spend $10,000 a year on Head Start, Early Start, Smart Start, early childhood education. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Senator, Tom Joyner will introduce you to the families.

MR. JOYNER: Thank you. Meet Michell Hicks-I'm sorry, Chief Michell Hicks of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indians. (Applause. Cheers.)

SEN. KERRY: Glad to meet you.

MR. JOYNER: Native American communities face a lot of challenges n education and health care. Michell, tell us about some of the challenges that your people are facing.

Q First of all, senator, welcome to the Carolinas. I do represent the Eastern Band of Cherokee, and also North Carolina, our brother to South Carolina. I'm glad to be here to be with you folks.

I would like to say that the Eastern Band is the largest tribe east of the Mississippi, representing 13,000 folks. This year represents the 174th year since the U.S. Congress voted into law the Indian Removal Act signed by President Jackson. Of course this seems like a long time, but when you take a look at the oppression that not only our society, but other parts of our society as these folks share with me-you know, there's no time line for oppression.

The Cherokee Nation's agreement with the U.S. was nullified, and the Cherokee people were forcibly removed from their homes, farms and ranches and literally marched across the nation to the Western region. The Trail of Tears was an embarrassing moment for this nation and for our tribe.

But there's a long stream of those failed promises, which continue to this very day with legislation pending in Congress. The legacy of broken promises has translated into Native Americans among others living in some of the poorest countries in the states and in this nation. And for Native American populations to consistently rank near or at the bottom for poverty, housing, education and health. Sir, my question for you today: If the United States continues to fail to meet its promises to its first residents, and all other residents, and we are a federally recognized tribe, how can African Americans, Latinos, Asians, new immigrants, youth, seniors and those that are poverty stricken, bee asked to believe that this U.S. will live up to the promises it makes to them? (Applause.)

MR. JOYNER: And do you have a follow-up?

Q And, sir, hold up-let him answer that one, and then we'll get the follow-up later.

SEN. KERRY: It's an honest and it's a great question, and it remains the great scar in the United States of America, is what happens to Native Americans and what is now happening.

The fact is that we have had too many broken promises all across this country, but we've also made progress. And I believe personally that the greatest progress was made when we had Democratic presidents who opened the doors of opportunity-President Kennedy started that in the 1960s with the civil rights movement. Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act. And he knew it was going to cost us politically in the South, and it did. But guess what? The mayor of Atlanta started to build a stadium and said-started to build a stadium and said, We built it with land we didn't own, with money we didn't have, for a team we had yet to sign. And then came the Braves, then came the Falcons, then came the Dolphins, then came the Panthers.

I'm saying to you that we've learned how to play sports together. We've learned how to educate and go to school together. But we need now to learn how to live together in the United States of America. And we need leadership --

MR. STANTON: Please wrap up, senator.

SEN. KERRY: -- we need leadership that is prepared to honor the needs of all our communities in this country.

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

SEN. KERRY: It begins by standing up against powerful special interests, and not giving people who earn $200,000 a year another tax cut at the expense of health care, education, and the needs of the community.

MR. STANTON: And we have another question from our family for you, senator.

MR. JOYNER: Okay, meet Beatrice Ladiesma (ph) from Wichita, Kansas, and immigrant who is now a business owner. Beatrice?

Q Yes, my name is Beatrice Ladiesma (ph) and I came from Wichita, Kansas. My only story is my father he was working in this country-he came into the United States for the guest working program. And life -- (inaudible) -- use for that, his employer, but came back now to Mexico -- (inaudible) -- law. Growing up we almost never saw him. That's why it's very hard for me, to my brothers and my sisters, and especially for my mother -- (inaudible) -- Now I live in the United States with my children for 19 years. I have my own business, and I pay taxes too. And now I still have my dream becoming a United States citizen.

I never want anything like what happened to my father, what happened to me or anybody else-that's why we're here.

SEN. KERRY: I understand. I understand that. (Applause.) Nobody-that shouldn't happen, and I am in favor of a program that brings people out of the shadows and treats people decently. We need an earned legalization program so that people who have been here for a number of years, paid their taxes, have jobs, stayed out of trouble-many of whom have children who are American citizens, because they were born here and they deserve to be treated humanely and decently, and we're going to try to bring them out by having earned legalization. I think we need a guest-worker program, but not George Bush's program, which is one for exploitation of working people in America. (Applause.) And we have 37,000 legal immigrants who are serving in the United States armed forces, and I think any legal immigrant who is honorably discharged deserves expedited citizenship of the United States. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: And, Senator Kerry, we have a follow-up question from our families. You'll have one minute.

MR. JOYNER: Meet Anton Gunn, the executive director of South Carolina Fair Share. Anton?

Q I'm blessed to be standing here beside a first American and a new American. And as an African American, or should I say black American? -- you know, we see the struggles of not accessing citizenship in America. You heard her story about her father and her. You know, what is your time table to guarantee access to citizenship and the right to the American dream for all immigrants in America?

SEN. KERRY: Well, when you say for all immigrants, if they are legal immigrants I think that it ought to be tried within a reasonable period of time-four or five years we ought to try reasonably to do it. I mean, there are several plans in Congress-five, six years. I think we can work through that and figure out what's a reasonable period of time.

What's important, however, is also to bring people out of the shadows so that we know who is in our country in terms of security, and also fairness. We have a lot of people who get herded into these large detention centers, separated from families-very cruel situations. I think we need to have immigrant reform that also has border reform, so that-and employer reform. We have people who are hiring people illegally, and they exploit them.

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap up.

SEN. KERRY: And it seems to me that we have to have a crackdown on that. And that's the way you wind up creating a system that's fair to everybody.

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

MR. JOYNER: Senator Kerry, the next question is about health care. Millions of Americans have no health care coverage. Others can barely afford their coverage. Do you have a plan to provide health care coverage for all Americans? And, as an addendum, would you favor legalizing the importation of drugs from Canada?

SEN. KERRY: Yes to the importation of drugs, I do. I also will allow states to be able to negotiate bulk purchases of drugs for Medicare so that we can lower the cost to seniors, and also lower the cost to all of you who wind up paying for it. But I do have a plan for health care coverage for all Americans. Number one, I am going to take over Medicaid children from the states, and we're going to cover all children in America automatically, immediately, day one, automatic enrollment -- (applause) -- children will be covered.

Number two, I am going to provide a 75 percent credit for people on the COBRA, so if you're unemployed you can still afford health insurance. I'm going to allow people 55 to 64 --

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap.

SEN. KERRY: To be able to buy into Medicare early. I'm going to allow every single person in America to buy into the same plan that senators and congressmen give themselves, because if it's good enough for us, it's good enough for everybody in the United States. (Applause.) That's what we'll do, and it will lower costs.

MR. STANTON: Senator, your next question comes from Tom Joyner.

MR. JOYNER: And this is an e-mail question off of blackamericaweb.com. Pamela Fox writes: I am very concerned about the exporting of jobs out of the United States. What are their plans to keep our jobs in the United States and help American companies and its workers?

SEN. KERRY: The first thing I'm going to do is crack down on any of these companies that take advantage of the tax code, like Tyco did, buying a $27,000 mailbox, and then they take $400 million off the tax rolls and stick you with the bill. We're going to shut down any incentive, any reward, or any kind of benefit for any Benedict Arnold company or CEO that takes American jobs overseas and stick the American people with the bill. That's number one.

Number two, we're going to have a fair trade agreement so that we put labor standards and environmental standards that begin to raise people up in other countries and not allow everybody simply to rush out to the lowest-sort of to the bottom, if you will, by going to other countries where they don't have any standards --

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap up.

SEN. KERRY: And, finally, we have to create jobs in the United States of America. We were doing that under Bill Clinton. We created 23 million new jobs.

MR. STANTON: Time's up.

SEN. KERRY: And if you liked the eight years of the economy under Bill Clinton, you're going to love the first four years under John Kerry, because we're going to repeat the same thing. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Senator Kerry, Senator Kerry, our next question is an e-mail question from a WIS-TV viewer. This is an e-mail question. You can see it there on the monitor, from Roberto Molineri (ph) from Columbia. He says: I am concerned with your stand on the Vietnam War and your organization, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. What can you comment on that stand, now?

SEN. KERRY: Well, I'm very proud of the fact that when I came back from Vietnam I had seen an extraordinary injustice over there, and I saw extraordinary injustice of the way the draft was applied. Most of the kids that I was with in Vietnam came out of the Southside of Chicago or South Central Los Angeles, or the barrios or elsewhere. They weren't the kids from the universities that I went to. And I believe that the draft was unfair. I think the war itself was unfair. (Applause.) And I'm proud that we stood up, and we not only stood up to Richard Nixon and camped on the mall and led thousands of veterans to Washington, but they tried to take us to the Supreme Court of the United States and kick us off. And we said to him, Mr. President, you sent us 8,000 miles away to fight, die and sleep in the jungles of Vietnam-we earned the right to sleep on the Mall and talk to our senators and our congressmen. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

SEN. KERRY: And we stayed.

MR. STANTON: Out of time, Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry, thank you for taking time to be with us in our family forum today.

SEN. KERRY: Thank you. Thank you very much. (Applause. Cheers.)

DR. DEAN: Thank you. Thank you.

MR. JOYNER: Governor Dean, you have 45 seconds to begin with an opening statement on poverty in America.

DR. DEAN: Luckily I'm a governor, so I get to tell you what I've already done, not just what I'm going to do. In my state, the minimum wage this time next year is going to be $7 an hour. That's the first thing to start to fight poverty.

Secondly, in my state, everybody under 18 years old has health insurance. All our working poor people under 150 percent of poverty have health insurance. Our seniors, one-third of them already have prescription benefits. That's what I want to do for the rest of this country. We are going to eliminate poverty in the United States of America in the next 20 years, and we're going to eliminate poverty for children in the United States of America by 2010. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: And Tom Joyner will introduce our family to you, Governor Dean.

MR. JOYNER: Okay, joining us right now is Keith Chen. Keith is a junior in high school. Studies show that -- (applause). You've got a fan club out there, Keith. (Laughter.) You won't raise it, I will! (Laughter.)

Keith Chen-Keith is a junior in high school. Studies show that children from the wealthiest American families are six times more likely to graduate from four-year college than those from the poorest families. Keith, what hurdles have you experienced to prepare for college?

MR. CHEN: I just want to say, good morning, Governor Dean. I come from New York city to speak to you about access to -- (cheers, applause) -- higher education. In my community, people struggle as the work two jobs trying to pay off college tuition. I believe this is true for almost every community in this country.

This is unfair, especially when, according to a government study, children from wealthy American families-they end up-they're likely to graduate from a four-year college more than those from poor families.

Basically, what I want to know is, are we in danger of creating a permanent class system in this country by making it even harder for poor young people to go to college.

DR. DEAN: The answer is, we are-as long as George Bush is president, we are going to create a permanent class system. We're going to change that as soon as we possibly can. (Applause.) What George Bush has done is given our money away to his friends, who run the biggest corporations in America and are paying for his reelection, and we're going to change that. (Applause.)

What George Bush is doing is making it impossible for people like you to go to college, and we're going to change that. Let me just tell you briefly how we're going to change it: For $7 billion, which is less than 10 percent of what we spend in Iraq every single year, you can make sure that you have an opportunity, and everybody else has an opportunity to go to college. Here's how it works: We're going to counsel every eighth grader and their parents to show them that money will be there -- $10,000 in grants and loans every year-for a four- year college or four-year post-high school technical education.

When you go to pay back the part that's loans, you will never pay back more than 10 percent of your income per year. At the end of ten years, your loan is done. If you go into public service-teaching, firefighting, police, nursing, the shortage areas-you will never pay back more than 7 percent of your income any given year, and at the end of ten years, your loans will have deemed to have been payed off. That is how every child in American can have a college education. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. STANTON: And Tom Joyner has our next family.

MR. JOYNER: Yes, joining Keith is Annamarie Archela (ph). Did I say it right?

Q Yes.

MR. JOYNER: Okay, tell us something about you, your story.

Q I also come from New York City. I'm a youth organizer and youth activist there. And what I see in our communities in my daily work is the effects of the increasing barriers to higher education. Tuition in private and public universities are increasingly. Financial aid is declining. Affirmative action is under attack. And as you might probably know, many immigrant students do not even have access to financial aid to attend higher education. So what I want to know is how do you specifically plan-and I know you answered some of these questions now-but how do you specifically plan to deal with the policies that are barring people from access to higher education, and are truly creating a divide between those who are able to access higher education because they have the income to pay for it, and those of us who are not able to access higher education?

DR. DEAN: I already explained how we are going to get rid of the financial barriers. Let's now explain how we are going to get rid of racial and ethnic barriers. We need affirmative action in this country. Let me explain why. (Applause.) Let me explain why. And we also need politicians like me, who will talk to white audiences about why we need affirmative action. (Applause.)

Let me tell you how I do this-and this is a true story. My chief of staff in 12 years as governor in Vermont was always a woman. And I noticed that after about three or four years my office was a matriarchy. (Laughter.) So one day the chief of staff came in, said she was going to hire a new person. I said, Well, you know we have a gender imbalance in this office. I don't get into the hiring around here, but I wonder if you could find a man. And she, without thinking what she was saying, she said, Well, governor, you're right, we have a gender imbalance. But it's very hard to find a qualified man. (Applause.)

Now, the point I'm trying to make is everybody does it. Everybody tends to hire people like themselves. There was a study in the Wall Street Journal that showed if you are white with a criminal record, you are more likely to get a second job interview, than if you are African American or Latino with a clean record. (Applause.) As long as that happens, we've got to talk about race, we've got to talk about African American in this country. And I think the leaders need to talk specifically to white audiences, because black audiences have heard a lot about it from white folks about racism. I don't think there's a lot more we can teach you about racism. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: And we have time for one short follow-up.

MR. JOYNER: With a one-minute response.

Q Okay. I just want to ask you specifically how much do you think you can do as a president, if you become a president, to increase access for immigrant students. Immigrant students are barred from accessing financial aid, and in many states forced to pay out-of- state tuition. How do you plan to address that?

DR. DEAN: The question is how do I address college education for immigrant students. First, we're going to-well, for all students I talked about, how we are going to do the money, $10,000 a year. But there is a clause right now that says that if you're an immigrant student, you may go through high school, you may graduate, but if you're not documented, then you state has no obligation to give you residential tuition rates. Now, that we've got to fix.

Let me just say one thing about-and we can fix it. It's just a matter of changing the law and having the federal government support students who graduate from high school going to college. Let me just say one thing about immigrants. Everybody please raise your hand if you have Native American blood in you. (Cheers.) Okay? Everybody else is an immigrant. (Laughter.)

Now, let me just say, Carol Moseley Braun, who ran for president-she dropped out. She endorsed me, which I appreciated.

MR. STANTON: You're out of time, governor.

DR. DEAN: She used to say one thing about this: You may have come on the Mayflower, you may have come on a slave ship, you may have come through Ellis Island-we are all in the same boat now. (Applause. Cheers.)

MR. STANTON: Governor, the next question, a health question: What would you propose, if attain mental health parity, particularly for children?

DR. DEAN: In my state we have mental health parity for everybody. It's the most far-reaching mental health bill in the country. You know, I am a fiscal conservative and a social progressive, and because I've saved money, we have been able to do a lot of these things that other states haven't done. I introduced the bill when I was a freshman in 1983. I signed it as governor in 1997. It treats mental diseases exactly the same way as everybody else's diseases. And we're going to do that in the whole country when I get to be president, with your help. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Tom Joyner has the next question.

MR. JOYNER: This is an e-mail question from Cammie. Cammie writes: When are they going to do something about helping the single working mother out here who can't get child support from the child's father because he refuses to work or will not hold a job for more than three months? These are the same dads, she says, who are getting food stamps, health care and other governmental assistance. But because I want better for myself and kids, I work, and because I work I can't get any assistance to help my family.

DR. DEAN: Now, you have seen a lot of politicians come through here-they're all going to tell you what they're going to do. I'm going to tell you what we already did in my state. If you make $40,000 a year or less, you get help paying for your child care, whether you are a single mom or a parent. We want people to work in our state. A quarter of all the people who are on welfare in our state also work. We use that as a supplemental, so that every single family can have a basic minimum standard of living, feed their kids, get adequate child care. And I know we also have the highest percentage of child support collections in the country. But the solution to this-I understand we've got to collect more from dead- beat dads and all that. The real solution is to make it possible to raise a child on what you earn. And that means a minimum wage a lot higher than it is now. That means guaranteed health insurance for every American man, woman and child in America --

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap up.

DR. DEAN: -- just exactly the kinds of things we have already done in my state. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Governor Dean, the next question comes from one of our WIS-TV viewers here in Columbia. It's a question on tape.

Q (From videotape) We're losing a lot of jobs to other countries, and the people who are not skilled are having problems finding employment-not unless you have a specific skill that you have or a degree. Otherwise you're losing-there are a lot of labor jobs going abroad. So I'd be interested in knowing how would they turn that around.

DR. DEAN: I was in Georgetown, South Carolina, two or three weeks ago. Steel mill closed down -- 535 people out of work. One of the executives told one of the working people, you know, I used to vote Republican all the time, but I don't have any health insurance.

I'm a Democrat from here on out.

We need to change our trade agreements. Globalization and trade is not going to go away. The trouble is we've only globalized the rights of big corporations to do business in all those countries. We have not globalized workers' rights, human rights and environmental rights. And until we do, we are going to continue to lose jobs. (Applause.) We need to change our trade agreements, and we need not to get into any more trade agreements until we fix the ones we already have.

MR. STANTON: Governor Howard Dean, thank you very much for being part of our presidential forum.

DR. DEAN: Thank you very much, I appreciate it. (Applause. Cheers.) I need your help on February 3rd! I need your vote.

SEN. EDWARDS: We have, actually this is an issue that people don't talk about anymore. And one thing I would say at the outset is, it's one thing for people to come in front of you and talk about poverty, it's a different thing to talk about it every time you speak, everywhere in America, which is what I do. This is part of the speech I give every time I speak, to have $35 million Americans living in poverty every day in a country of our wealth and prosperity, children going to bed hungry, children who don't have the clothes to keep them warm, millions of Americans who are working full time, supporting their families, working for minimum wage, and living in poverty is wrong. You and I need to change that. Here's what we can do, I want to lift 10 million Americans out of poverty in my administration.

MR. STANTON: Senator, time is up.

SEN. EDWARDS: I will stop.

MR. STANTON: And Tom Joyner is going to introduce our panel.

MR. JOYNER: I love this format.

SEN. EDWARDS: You like the time limits?

MR. JOYNER: No, I like the fact that we've got real people asking questions that concern them.

SEN. EDWARDS: Very good.

MR. JOYNER: Please meet Elaine Johnson. Elaine Johnson is from Orangeburg, South Carolina. Her son Darius is one of three young men in Orangeburg County to be killed in Iraq. Darius joined the military shortly after graduating from high school. Elaine, tell us about your son.

MS. JOHNSON: Okay. First of all, my son Darius served his country, and he served his country to the best of his ability. I gave my son three choices, it was either college, job, or the military. He went to college, but he wasn't ready for college. So there was no jobs in South Carolina, so he was forced to go into the military. He chose the honest path. I am proud of my son for serving in the military, but young people should join the military because they want to be soldiers, not because they are forced into joining the military. Due to the fact of my son joining the military, he's become a casualty of an unjustifiable war. I have a daughter that is a sophomore at Allen University, and I am so afraid when she becomes a college graduate that there will be no jobs.

Senator Edwards, my question is to you, what plan do you have in place to secure jobs not only for college graduate students, but for students that are coming straight out of high school, that don't want to further their education, and don't want to be forced into the military for another choice, of providing for education, or financial.

SEN. EDWARDS: First of all, thank you. Thank you for what you've done, for your family and what you've done. God bless you, god bless you for what you've been through. Here's what I would say about what you just asked about. This is something-I was, as most people know, born here in South Carolina. I grew up in my very early years lived in a mill village, a textile mill village, and we all know what's happened to the textile jobs here in South Carolina, most of them have left. We have so much work to do, both to protect the jobs that we have, and to create jobs, so that what happened with your son, and what you're worried about with your daughter doesn't happen again.

Here's what I would do. First, we have to change our trade policy. Trade agreements like NAFTA have been devastating, caused enormous job loss here, and had huge, devastating consequences for families, for communities, we have to have a different kind of trade policy in America, so we don't continue to see the jobs leaving and going overseas. We also have loopholes in our tax code that are actually giving tax breaks to American companies that are leaving and going overseas, which is absolutely crazy. Why in the world are we giving a tax break to corporations that are leaving America and going some place else? It makes no sense. We ought to stop that.

We ought to go further and give a tax break, I believe, to American companies that will keep jobs here in America. Then in communities like-you're from Orangeburg, right? I've been in Orangeburg, and I know what's going on in Orangeburg.

MR. STANTON: Senator, wrap up.

SEN. EDWARDS: I will wrap up. One last thing. We need to create incentives for businesses, new businesses and existing businesses to locate in communities like yours in Orangeburg, so that we can bring good jobs there. Thank you, sir.

MR. JOYNER: Joining Elaine Johnson is James Holloway, a school board member in Saluda County, and a retired textile worker. Mr. Holloway has seen the job market in South Carolina's textile industry virtually disappear.

MR. HOLLOWAY: Senator Edwards, thank you for being here, and my concern is, where I live the largest employer closed his plant and moved his work offshore, leaving 900 of my people, family people, friends, jobless. We've recently been told this spring coming there will be another plant that closes, losing 140 more jobs. Saluda now has approximately maybe 50 textile jobs there. There are little or no jobs for kids there. I would like to say to you that, this thing that bought a bill of good, and which I call a false bill of goods, saying that this new global economy would be the best thing for all of us. We have not received those benefits from that global economy. So my question to you is how can we change the course so that the benefits of this economic, so-called global economy, can be felt by all American communities?

SEN. EDWARDS: James, what happened in your town, in your community, is exactly what we've seen happen all over South Carolina. I've seen it happen in my own state of North Carolina. My father worked in a textile mill all his life. You said you worked in textile mill, so you know what it's like working in a cotton mill, in a textile mill. Well, my father worked there, and I worked there myself when I was young. And what happens is when these mills close, and you have seen it personally. What happens is it just devastates families, devastates communities, and the jobs are just leaving and going overseas.

You know what's happened is, we are so focused on free trade, there's no fair trade anymore. And that's why jobs are leaving. We have to change that. We have to change trade agreements like NAFTA. WE have to change our other trade agreements to make sure that they, in fact, put us on a more level playing field so that we can keep jobs here in this country. It is so important, and just so you know, this is not some academic Washington issue for me. I've been living with this my whole life. I have seen-the mill closed in my home town in North Carolina, and I saw what it did to the community. I saw what it did to families. So I know exactly what you're talking about. And you have my commitment as your president that we will stop what George Bush is doing with the loss of jobs here in South Carolina.

MR. STANTON: Senator Edwards, you'll have one minute for the answer to this question.

MR. JOYNER: Follow-up question?

MR. HOLLOWAY: Poor people are often told to take personal responsibility, but employers we know they're very powerful. They can decide whether they're going to pay a living wage. They can decide whether they're going to treat employees fairly. They can decided when to close a plant or keep it open. So, when you become the president of these United States, what will you do to make sure corporations have the community workers and so forth in mind, and at heart, and what will you do to level the playing field?

SEN. EDWARDS: What happens is, if you look at what's going on, it's not just corporations who for profits are taking their plants and their jobs overseas. What happens is, you hear the Bush administration talk, and they make it sound like the economy is doing just fine. Well, Wall Street economy is doing just fine. Main Street economy is doing terrible.

People are hurting, they're struggling. And that every same thing that you talked about earlier going on with your community, there are a lot of things that we need to do. One thing we need to do is, we need to raise the minimum wage in this country. The idea that we have millions of Americans working full-time and living in poverty is wrong. We should say no forever to any American working full-time and living in poverty. They should not be able to do that.

The other thing is, we've got to look out not just for the CEOs, they seem to be doing just fine, but the question is, how are working people doing? How are people like you doing? We need a president that will stand up for you, that's what we need.

MR. STANTON: Senator, the next question is this, you made millions of dollars as a trial lawyer according to published reports, you and your wife recently purchased two multi-million dollars homes in the Washington area. You talk about two Americas. Is it reasonable to think that you can relate to those who are less fortunate, to those who don't have insurance, or a roof over their heads?

SEN. EDWARDS: Yes, it is. The answer is, the life that I have lived is the dream that's being shut off for so many Americans every single day. I was brought home-I was brought home to a mill village in Seneca, South Carolina, to a little two-room house. My father had to borrow the money to get me out of the hospital. I grew up from the time I was very young the same way that most people grow up in this country, working hard, working hard trying to build a better life for myself, for my own family. And, you're right, I've done very well. But the problem is, the problem is most Americans, including all these folks up here, and most of these folks in the audience, they're not doing fine. George Bush is taking very good care of people who are doing well. The problem is, he's shutting off opportunity from all those people who are struggling every single day. I'll tell you, I'll say this to every single person in the audience, I grew up the way you grew up, I come from the South.

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap up.

SEN. EDWARDS: You have to let me finish. You asked me the question. I grew up the way you grew up. I come from the same place. I spent 20 years in courtrooms fighting for you against big corporate America, against big insurance companies. I will never forget where I come from, and you can take that to the bank.

MR. STANTON: Tom Joyner has the next question.

MR. JOYNER: I have a question here from one of my listeners on TomJoyner.com, BlackAmericaWeb.com, Myra Lee of San Antonio, Texas. My 72-year-old father lives on Social Security. His total income is approximately $900 per month. He spends approximately $400 per month on medication, living him very little. Often, he will choose to not purchase medicine, but will elect to buy food instead. If elected, what plans do you have to assist the elderly in paying for medication that are vital to their continued good health, Myra Lee, San Antonio, Texas?

SEN. EDWARDS: I'll tell you the first thing we're going to do is, we're going to keep drug companies from running the government in Washington, D.C., which is what's going on there right now. You don't have to go any further than this prescription drug bill that just passed the Congress to know what's wrong there. Here we've got this serious issue, millions of seniors who desperately need prescription drugs, and look at what we've got. We got billions of dollars in your money going to HMOs, should have gone to seniors. We're driving seniors out of Medicare into HMOs, and then everything that could have been done to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, using the power of the government to negotiate a better price, allowing prescription drugs in from Canada, doing something finally about these drug company ads on TV, you've all seen these ads on TV, complete-you know who's paying for them, don't you, you're paying for them every time you go to the pharmacy. We tried to put all those provisions in to bring down the cost of prescription drugs for everybody, the drug companies were against all of them, so all of them came out. Here's the truth of the matter, this government, your democracy, does not belong to that crowd of insiders in Washington and their lobbyists, it belongs to you, and we're going to give it back to you when I'm president of the United States.

MR. STANTON: Senator, we took e-mail questions from viewers, and this is an e-mail question from Randy Butler from Charleston, South Carolina. You stated in your political speech that you have a plan to strengthen education. South Carolina ranked near the bottom in overall education. Please tell us how your education plan will help South Carolina, and other states right near the bottom in education?

SEN. EDWARDS: Well, we're going to do several things. One is, we're going to stop the damage being done by No Child Left Behind every day in our public schools across America. Second, we're going to have a longer-term, broader, bigger vision for public education in America, so that we don't continue the legacy of two public school systems. We still have two public school systems, they're not race- based now, they're based on economic conditions, but they have huge racial impact.

What we're going to do is this, first, as your president, I'm going to lead a national initiative to raise teacher pay across the nation so we get good teachers, and keep good teachers. We're going to give bonus incentive pay to teachers who will teach in less affluent areas. We're going to give scholarships to young people who will do the same thing. We're going to strengthen our early childhood programs so that every single child starts school, kindergarten, first grade, ready to learn. We're going to make after-school available to all those kids who desperately need it. And for the hundreds of thousands of young people who want to go to college, they can't go because they can't afford it, we're going to make college available to every young person who is willing to work for it.

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap.

MR. JOYNER: Senator John Edwards, thank you for being with us.

SEN. EDWARDS: Thank you all very much.

REP. KUCINICH: Thank you very much for being here. I come not as a missionary to all of you, but I come from a family, I was the oldest of seven. My parents never owned a home. By the time I was 17 years old, we lived in 21 different places, including a couple cars. And because of that experience, I understand the essential issues which unite everyone here. And because of that experience, my heart and my soul are part of this great expanse, and I welcome you and I look forward to serving you as president of the United States.

MR. STANTON: Tom Joyner has our next family.

MR. JOYNER: I want you to meet Vanessa Brown. Vanessa Brown was in an abusive marriage, but she felt trapped because the only way she saw to leave was to go on welfare. Vanessa, what happened when you tried to get support for your training?

MS. BROWN: Well, I went to the welfare system to try to get college support while I went to college. I didn't ask them to pay for it, I could handle that myself. I just needed some support for me and my son. The healthcare was the most important thing for us, and I was denied access to going to college. The priority at that time was to work first, and I didn't appreciate that, because by working first that put me in a low wage job position, where I could go to college and I could earn a living wage where I could totally provide for me and my son.

MR. JOYNER: And your question? Okay. Go ahead.

It's your show. This is about you, and it's okay.

MS. BROWN: Thank you, Tom. I did come here to tell a story, and my story is very important, because it not only affects me, but millions of other women, as well. And I just want to let you know that after five years I realized that I was in a marriage that was sick. And I tried to find a cure for that, I went to counseling, I thought that maybe if I altered my actions that it would make things different. But, in the end I realized that the only way to find a secure place for me and my son would be for me to leave. So that led me to go to a domestic violence shelter, and that's how I found that I had to go to the welfare system, in order to stay and get that support that I needed, I had to look to the welfare system for the financial support. As I did say, I went there and I found that I only exchanged one abuser for another.

It was a very difficult situation for me, I was forced to jump through many hoops, but I did that, because I had to support me and my son. So I was just appalled that I was denied access, or just a little bit of support to go to college, I thought that that would be a much cheaper solution than paying for me to go to a work first program that I did not need. But, I was able to overcome that, and I'm going to tell you how, I was able to focus on helping other women in need just like me. I was able to take my fortunate blessings and help those other women, and now that has led me to my current position, where I now work for one of the largest social service and advocacy programs in Philadelphia. So what I do-and what I'm able to do there is assist in the development of making housing, permanent housing, low income housing, for homeless women and children.

So the whole reason why it was so important for me to tell my story is if there's anybody out there, and I pray to god, if there's anybody out there that is listening to me, and has experienced what I have, I hope that I give them hope, and I encourage them to leave those situations and begin a journey to a better life.

MR. JOYNER: Representative Kucinich, perhaps you would want to address the question of domestic violence. South Carolina is number one in the number of women killed by men.

REP. KUCINICH: Vanessa, what is your question?

MS. BROWN: Many politicians believe that marriage is the way to end poverty for most women. President Bush has proposed a $1.5 billion marriage promotion program for women on welfare. I'd like to ask you, after hearing my story, do you think that marriage is the answer to poverty? And I have a second part. If not, if you do not agree with that, I need you to tell me, what do you think is the best way to help women find themselves a way out of poverty?

REP. KUCINICH: There's a number of issues that have been raised here. First of all, thank you, thank you for sharing that story with us, because that's a story of someone who didn't quit when she was being beat and kept looking to claim your dignity. And you were looking for a society that would respect your dignity, and you didn't always find it. The society that I hope to work with you to create is this, when it comes to issues of domestic violence, we need to look at the causes, not just treating the affects. We sure need to treat the affects, with respect to having well staffed shelters, and having programs where women can find an opportunity for gainful employment. But, even before that, we need to make sure that we challenge these attitudes in our society about violence. This is the reason why I have advocated creating a department of peace, where we would make non-violence an organizing principle in our society, and in the home we would deal directly with the issue of domestic violence, and would examine the attitudes of young men and boys in our society. Where do young men and boys learn that they can hit women? Where do they get that idea? We need to challenge that thinking through teaching, through education, through working with community groups, non- governmental organization, and teach non-violence, teach giving, teach sharing, mutuality, reciprocity, looking at the other person as an aspect of oneself. The Department of Peace is one step towards dealing with the issue of domestic violence.

Thank you.

MR. STANTON: Next family.

MR. JOYNER: Okay. Joining Vanessa is Eugenia Beach, not Virginia, Eugenia, who was laid off from the South Carolina Department of Social Services after 10 years. She now works with the South Carolina Association of Community Development Corporation. Eugenia is the foster parent of two boys, ages 17 and 11.

MS. BEACH: I want to follow up on Vanessa's question. While she was looking or services from her local welfare agency, I was actually here in South Carolina trying to design some of those programs and get them out there to folks like Vanessa who needed employment and training services. Unfortunately, like you said, as of October 1st this year, I lost my job in a layoff, and was immediately struck with that panic of, how am I going to support my family, and do I have adequate education and training to be competitive in the workplace. Welfare reform has emphasized work first, and often the jobs that are available to women transitioning from welfare are not adequate to support their families. My question is, what would you do to support, or how would you support a change in welfare policies that would allow women to get employment and training first, before they have to go find a job?

REP. KUCINICH: There's a couple of different issues here. First of all, so many times these job training programs end up training people for jobs that do not exist. My belief is that the government must be the employer of last resort when the private sector doesn't provide jobs. That's essential. Also, in terms of women who are at a disadvantage, because they're on welfare and can't find an adequate job, I have a couple of ideas that I think would be very beneficial. First of all, I have introduced legislation as a member of Congress, four term member, to create a universal, pre-kindergarten program, where children ages three, four, and five, would have the ability to go to a fully funded daycare program, five days a week. It would save parents between $5000 and $7000 on the cost of daycare, where the children would have an opportunity to learn, and to close the achievement gap.

The next thing that we need to do is to have a universal healthcare system, because many people are working just to pay health insurance, and we need to make sure that we have a not for profit system, where everyone can have health insurance, and you'll never again have to worry about whether you have to take a job just to be able to make sure you have healthcare coverage. Next, in addition to that, the public works program that I'm proposing is to rebuild America, a new WPA-type program, where it will create millions of jobs, rebuilding our cities, our water systems.

MR. STANTON: You need to wrap up.

REP. KUCINICH: These are the kind of things that we can do for economic progress, that would help women in the circumstances you'll describe.

MR. STANTON: And you'll have one minute for the next answer from our families.

MR. JOYNER: Okay. Vanessa.

MS. BROWN: Dennis, I have a quick question for you. I believe that education is the key to ending poverty, and I want to know, that $1.5 billion, are you in agreement that instead of going to marriage proposals, should go to providing excellent training, technical training, not the low wage training, where we were in a call center, or a service provider, we want technical training where we can have a real career, and we want to have access to go on to college. What are your feelings about that?

REP. KUCINICH: My feelings are, and again, in terms of a transformation in this country, which is what my candidacy is about, I believe that we have the resources in this country for every young person who is college age to be able to go to a two or a four year college tuition free. That then solves the problem of whether or not you have any resources. Now people ask me, how are you going to pay for it? Here's how you pay for it. The $87 billion in tax cuts that went to the wealthy, you could put that in a fund and everyone could go to college tuition free. It's about our priorities. It's about our priorities. It's about our priorities.

MR. JOYNER: Representative Kucinich, the next question is also about education. If you're elected president, what would you do to try to bring teacher salaries in line with those of other professionals?

REP. KUCINICH: Well, first of all, education must be a priority.

Now think about this: The discretionary budget of the United States of America -- 50 percent of that budget goes for the military -- 50 percent! I mean, would you spend 50 percent of your budget for a burglar alarm? No, you wouldn't. And what's happening is, we're underemphasizing education and we're overemphasizing the military. (Applause.)

Now, I intend-I intend-as president of the United States, I intend to expand education so that we can have better-paid teachers, smaller classroom sizes, professional development for our teachers. And we must look at education on a continuum, where it begins at age three, all the way through and including college. That's what education ought to be, and the resources to fund it-now I talked about the universal pre-kindergarten program --

MR. STANTON: Need to wrap up.

REP. KUCINICH: -- that can be funded by a 15 percent reduction --

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

REP. KUCINICH: -- in the Pentagon budget without any way adversely affecting our national security. (Applause.)

MR. STANTON: Tom Joyner has the next question.

MR. JOYNER: I have an e-mail question here from a gentleman named Ty. Ty asks, “What can be done in America to stop the racial divide and racial polarization?” In other words, how would you move America toward being a more inclusive society? (Applause.)

REP. KUCINICH: In the Book of Isaiah, we're told that we must be repairers of the breach, and we must recognize that a breach has occurred in our society because of the institution of slavery, and that there are many people in this country who still are feeling the long-term effects of this separation. What that means is that we must directly address this issue as I have done with Congressman John Conyers in asking for a study of reparations. But I want to go beyond that. We need, and we must, we must close the gaps that exist in income by having a living wage. We must close the gaps that exist in education by having universal pre-kindergarten and fully paid college. We must close the gaps in health care by having universal health care-not-for-profit for all people. We must close the gaps in employment opportunity --

MR. STANTON: Need to wrap.

REP. KUCINICH: -- by having a full-employment economy. We must close the gaps, and when we close the gaps in all that, we'll help to close the gap in matters of race as well. (Applause.) These are healing hands!

MR. STANTON: Representative Kucinich, our next question comes from one of our viewers. It is an e-mail question. This question from Ron Andrews from Blythewood, South Carolina. He writes, “Members of Congress benefit from an extremely generous, 100 percent taxpayer- funded retirement program. How would you vote on a bill that puts legislators back in the Social Security system and sets up a more traditional private sector-type retirement program?”

REP. KUCINICH: Well, let me tell you this about members of Congress: I have served in the Congress now for four terms, and there's a lot of good people in the Congress of the United States, people who are dedicated. Not everyone in the Congress of the United States is a millionaire. You have to keep that in mind. And you want people to be in public life who are going to be able to protect the public interests. And in order to do that, there is a pension fund which rewards people who are dedicated, but if you do the wrong thing, you're going to lose that pension fund.

Now my goal, as a member of Congress, is to make sure that everyone here has retirement security. I want to make sure we protect Social Security. Social Security is rock solid through the year 2042 without any changes whatsoever. My election means the privatization of Social Security is dead in its tracks. I want to take the retirement age back to 65 so everyone here who's ready to retire then will be able to. (Applause.) And I want to make sure that the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation protects all pensioners. We got to stop these companies from tricking people on their pensions and stealing their pension funds. That's what I intend to do. (Applause.)

MR. JOYNERS: Time's up. Representative Kucinich --

REP. KUCINICH: Don't worry about what members of Congress make; make sure they're protecting you.

MR. JOYNER: Representative Kucinich, thank you very much for taking time to be with us in our forum today. (Applause.) Representative Dennis Kucinich.

REV. SHARPTON: Thank you. Thank you very much. First of all, I'm very happy to be here, but even more important, happy to ask you to consider supporting me as the Democratic nominee in 2004. (Applause.

)

This race must be about the mass mobilization of this country to remove from office a man who has brought us into war on a false premise, and who came into office on a false premise. (Cheers, applause.)

We must recovery the economy by creating jobs. I am the candidate that has said specifically that I would propose a $250 billion, five-year plan --

MR. STANTON: Out of time.

REV. SHARPTON: -- to rebuild the infrastructure. And to immediately bring our boys home from Iraq now! (Cheers, applause.)

MR. STANTON: Reverend Sharpton, now you can meet the families. Tom Joyner will introduce them to you.

MR. JOYNER: Reverend, meet Angela Perez (sp). Angela Perez is a high school student in New York City. (Cheers.) She's preparing for college in the public school system. But many of her friends are having a tough time.

Angela (sp), tell us about your experience with the public school system.

Q Thank you, Mr. Joyner. I am Angela Perez (sp). I come from New York City, and I'm representing students from our nation's school-public school education. This year marks the 50 anniversary of the Supreme Court's Brown versus Board of Education decision. (Applause.) But many children of color and low-income students continue to be subjected to a separate and unequal education. (Cheers, applause.) My friends and I are fortunate to attend a good public high school and we are well prepared for college. But many of our community members go to schools that lack quality teachers, decent facilities and good textbooks. We want you, as president, to improve the quality of our public education system. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. STANTON: Go ahead, Reverend.

REV. SHARPTON: First of all-first of all, I went to public schools in New York, and I know what you're speaking of. I have advocated unequivocally throughout this race that we must have an unequivocal commitment to public education. The privatization of schools, even with the use of vouchers, is really to select some students. The job of government is not to select some, the job of government is to guarantee equal quality education to all students. (Cheers, applause.)

And I think I'm the candidate in this race that has said unequivocally I'm against vouchers, I'm against privatization. We need to put money back into Title I. We need to raise teachers' salaries (with a standard ?). (Applause.) We need to give debt forgiveness to college students that are trying to be teachers. We cannot afford -- (applause) -- we cannot afford to put billions of dollars in foreign adventures --

MR. STANTON: (Inaudible.)

REV. SHARPTON: -- while we watch schools crumble in the United States. (Applause.) And we can't equivocate about that.

MR. STANTON: Reverend Sharpton, meet your second family. Tom Joyner will introduce them to you.

MR. JOYNER: This is Rosa-you're --

Q Arevalo (sp).

MR. JOYNER: Right. (Laughter.) She's from Los Angeles, and she runs a child care center in a low-income area.

Q Yes. Good morning, and thank you, Tom. I do run a high- quality child care center. When the kids leave my center, they know their numbers, they know their letters, but most importantly, they have the social skills to begin school and succeed.

Unfortunately, most of the public schools in our areas are overcrowded. Teachers are underpaid, and then frequently, because of that, they are teaching to the lowest common denominator.

Within a matter of years, our more promising kids are beaten down by the system. And it's no wonder that 50 percent of the students in the local high schools fail to graduate.

Now, Reverend, in Los Angeles we have schools of the haves and schools, like the ones in my neighborhood, of the have-nots. How are you planning to use the power of the federal government to ensure that all schools are created equal? (Applause.)

REV. SHARPTON: I think that-I think the way you do it-going back to her question, 50 years after Brown versus the Board of Ed-and I'm the only one that's been a civil rights activist in this race, so I know about that. The rest of these people talk about what should be done. I did something about it. (Applause.) I put myself on the line.

But the way you do it-the federal government had to guarantee equal access to all after Brown versus Board. I would, as president, say that for any state or county to receive federal funds, they must show where they have equal educational opportunities. (Applause.)

The president can decide, by the use of budget and executive order, to make sure that schools are operating equal. I'll give you an example. Opening day of school this semester, they closed 16 schools in St. Louis, all on the black and poor side of town. I went and marched with those parents. How do you close one side of town, give all the resources to another side of town, and act like that's fair and equal? (Applause.) So in the old days, they used to send us to a different school. Now they just send the money to a different school.

MR. STANTON: We need to start-we need to start wrapping up.

REV. SHARPTON: We have got to have the money be everywhere. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. JOYNER: Follow-up question. Reverend, a one minute response to our follow-up question. Rosa (ph)?

MR. STANTON: You have one minute, Reverend.

Q Now, in my state and in some other states around the country, kids are required to take a high-stakes test in order to graduate. Some of the same kids don't have access to textbooks or even teachers. Reverend, these kids are not only left behind, they're left in the dust. So why does the government makes these children take tests when they don't have the resources to learn, and what would you do to change that? (Cheers, applause.)

REV. SHARPTON: First of all-first of all, to ask children to take a test that you know they're not prepared to take is to try to document why you are not servicing those children. It's a setup. It's a catch-22. We need to throw out these tests until we can show equal quality education and preparation. In many ways, it's an unfairness that is institutionalized that we must rid ourselves of, and that can only come, like in the civil rights movement days, from the federal government protecting citizens. It's just like in this race. Reporters, they will ask Kerry, “What was a great maritime disaster?” He'll say, “Titanic.” Edwards, “How many people died?” “Well over a thousand.” “Sharpton, give me their name, addresses and phone numbers.” (Cheers, applause.)

MR. STANTON (?): Reverend Sharpton? Reverend Sharpton? Reverend Sharpton, the next question here -- (cheers, applause) -- ladies and gentlemen, if you would hold your applause so the reverend can continue with this question. (Cheers, applause.) Ladies and gentlemen, we would ask that you please hold your applause so we can continue with the program.

Reverend Sharpton, many business leaders say the cost of business and medical liability hurts them, especially in competition with foreign businesses, which often don't have to bear those burdens. What would you do to help to ease these burdens on businesses?

REV. SHARPTON: First of all, I'm against a lot of the trade agreements that have cost us jobs, first of all, not only in terms of businesses but in terms of jobs. We have lost thousands of jobs right here in South Carolina. I would rescind NAFTA.

I would also help businesses get started. What is part of the problem? I visited U Street in Washington, D.C. Some of the local businesses' problem is that they're stifled with taxes the first couple of years. Rather than giving tax cuts to billionaires and tax cuts to multinational corporations, I'd give a two-year tax deferment for businesses to get started, get on their feet, because they will hire people in the community. (Cheers, applause.) That's real entrepreneurship.

MR. STANTON: The next question is from Tom Joyner.

MR. JOYNER: This is an e-mail question. “Do you agree with the statement: Are the jobs going overseas the next best thing to slavery, from free labor to cheap labor?”

REP. SHARPTON: Absolutely. I think that when you see the exporting of jobs with no labor guarantees, with no kind of standards and protections for those workers, we are allowing, one, people to become unemployed here, put on at cheap-to-slave wages abroad, and act like that's some kind of new global trade. It is not new global trade. It's the same thing all over again. I got here as an African because of bad trade policy. I'm against bad trade policy now. (Extended cheers and applause.)

MR. STANTON: Ladies and gentlemen, please hold your applause -- (applause and cheering continue) -- please hold your applause so we can get to our next question.

Reverend Sharpton, we have a question from one of our WIS viewers. It's on tape, and you can see it right there. This is Kate Landis (sp) of Columbia.

Q What are they going to do to cut the deficit while at the same time maintain a strong defense?

REV. SHARPTON: I think the way you cut the deficit is you have to have a fair tax policy. One, people that make over $80,000 a year don't have to pay FICA. I would have have it go all the way up. We all should be investing in FICA and health care. We should bring those monies in.

Second, I would reregulate big business. Deregulation has made it possible for companies like Enron to have 3,000 offshore companies paying no taxes. We ought to make those that enjoy the country most pay their share. (Cheers, applause.) That would bring in billions and trillions of dollars.

Third, I would rescind Bush's tax cuts, which would bring trillions of dollars into these coffers in the United States, into the federal government, which would cut the deficit.

And lastly, I would stop the war in Iraq. They spent $70 billion, came back and got $87 billion. They want billions more. We need to put that money into education and health care. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. JOYNER: Time's up.

MR. STANTON: Reverend Sharpton, thank you very much for taking part in our forum today. (Cheers, applause.)

REV. SHARPTON: All right. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. STANTON: Ladies and gentlemen, Reverend Al Sharpton. (Cheers, applause.)

END

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